This is the transcript for Grief Out Loud Ep. 349 Throughlines: Keeping A Connection With My Mom. Find the audio version here.
SPEAKERS
Jana DeCristofaro (host)
Jeremy (guest)
Jana DeCristofaro 00:08
Hey listeners, it's Jana. Welcome back to Grief Out Loud. Before we begin, I wanted to give you a quick heads up. In this episode, our guest Jeremy talks about experiences from bow hunting and includes the death of an animal. The conversation is not graphic, but it does include reflections on that experience. So we want you to have that context as you listen and to take care of yourself in whatever way you need.
In this conversation, Jeremy talks about his mom, her life, her death, and the ways their relationship continues. Jeremy's mom died just a few months after a cancer diagnosis, and in that short time, her optimism and focus on protecting her family never wavered. Since her death, Jeremy's been finding his way through grief in some specific and unique ways: spending time in the woods, bow hunting, connecting with this Filipino heritage and showing up to a grief group, even when he wasn't sure it would help.
One of the threads that runs through this conversation is connection how it continues, how it changes, and how sometimes it shows up in moments you can't quite explain, for Jeremy, that often looks like seeing his mom in the sky, hearing her encouragement and feeling her presence in places that matter the most to him. If you've ever had a moment where someone who died felt close, or if you're wondering what that might look like to stay connected in your own way, I think you'll find something here.
One other note about language. As Jeremy talks about his bow hunts, he uses the term ethical harvest, which is grounded in why he hunts to feed himself and his community.
Okay, here's our conversation, Jeremy, welcome to the show. I'm so happy to have this conversation with you today.
Jeremy
Yeah, thanks for having me on. Really appreciate it.
Jana DeCristofaro 02:06
Introduce us to your mother. What would you like to share about her?
Jeremy 02:12
Yeah, my mother, so she was a first-time immigrant from the Philippines. So she was born in the Philippines and then immigrated to the United States at a young age, and then grew up in New Mexico, where for the majority of her childhood, where I'm currently residing right now, have moved here after her loss.
Jana DeCristofaro 02:41
So how, how old was she when she moved to the US?
Jeremy 02:45
So she was two years old, she wouldn't have remembered, I don't think much, much of the homeland or that time. It's interesting. She moved back to the capital city, not from the province that she was born in, and where my family's from for a few years in her high school years, and that that was, that's a long story, but they ended up moving back and then bringing the rest of The family of my grandfather and getting them into the states after they came back.
Jana DeCristofaro 03:24
Was your mom like as a mom, as a friend, as a community member?
Jeremy 03:33
As a mom, she defended her children. And what I mean by that is, I think everything her career was working for the Central Intelligence Agency the United States of America and I know from we don't know What she did exactly, but I know, I know that every day that she was going to work, it was to protect her children. As a mother, to some degree, right along with everybody else she is serving. But you know, from that aspect, it all the way to just when I was growing up, you could see she cared, you know, so much about her children being safe in various ways and such, to the point where I Remember I broke my ankle skateboarding, and she threw, she threw the skateboard out kind of thing, because, right, it is a threat to my well-being. She saw it as a threat to my well-being. As her son, that's her, her as a mom was always one. Wanting her children to be safe and have the best, best life
Jana DeCristofaro 05:05
that they could have. So I know you've shared that she was really like committed to protecting you and your siblings. What was your personal relationship with your mom?
Jeremy 05:18
Like my personal relationship with her. She was always a great caregiver, you know, along with a protector, always encouraging me to do whatever my aspirations were right, as long as they weren't going to hurt somebody else or something like that.
Jana DeCristofaro 05:43
But as long as it didn't include skateboarding anymore.
Jeremy 05:48
Yeah, Yeah. And really, she was an optimistic, positive energy giving mother. And what I mean by that is that she was always optimistic and looking or looking at the bright side of everything she was she was always smiling. I just can't really remember much of a time unless she was, you know, upset about the skateboard type thing, or something of that nature, where she was sad, she was just always, always happy. So much so that at the terminal diagnosis of her cancer, which happened in May 2023, and she ended up passing in August, 2023 when I visited her in the hospital in July, a month before she had passed, you know, I had just this is the first time I'd see her since her terminal diagnosis. I was living in Portland. She was living in Virginia at the time of her terminal diagnosis, so I had flown across the states to see her, and I was really sad to see her in the condition she was. She couldn't talk, she couldn't eat, for all intents purposes. And she asked me she was, she was still, you know, in the hospital bed, somewhat somehow, enjoying life. And I hugged her, you know, because as soon as I was allowed in the room, and I didn't know what my facial reaction was, but she asked me, oh, why do you look so sad when she was she was there dying, and, you know, not being able to speak because she had an iPad where she could type, and then it would do a voice type thing. And, you know, my dad said, Well, he's, he's concerned, but that's, that's the level of optimism and positivity that she had. Was asking me my reaction, I don't understand why you're why you look so sad.
Jana DeCristofaro 08:25
Yeah, what was that like for you and your family that such a short period of time between when she was diagnosed and when she died, with your mom being so positive and optimistic? Did it impact what your understanding of her illness was?
Jeremy 08:47
We didn't know how long she had when she was diagnosed in May of 2023 It was a long range that was given, such that it could have been up to two years. We really didn't know. And I visited that July, and had planned to come back out to visit her in August, because her condition was getting worse in between me visiting in July and then going back for her funeral in August. I was still able to communicate with her via text. And you know, I was, I was in the mountains hunting, and you know, I was telling her, updating her on what was going on out in the woods, and she was just still, she's like, Oh, better luck next time. And I was never as optimistic or positive as her when she was alive. And I. Didn't I mean that whole period was, of course, very stressful. I was on the other side of the country, and I felt an obligation and to try to be there as much as possible, but balancing work and having to be there and such. So I would say that her optimism and positivity during this stressful period really helped me.
Jana DeCristofaro 10:32
In a way, she was continuing to protect you, even through her illness and her decline.
10:37
Jeremy
That's true. That's a that's I never thought of it that way,
Jana DeCristofaro 10:43
when your mom did die in August, what were those early days and weeks of grief like for you?
Jeremy 10:55
Yeah, it was interesting because, you know, the day, the day after she died, and I got the news, I went out, went out to the woods, and I found it's a dear, dear skull. I felt like I was meant to find that that skull, because it's almost as a gift I feel from my mom, that I found that you know that, that it was going to be all right, and that you know I'm grateful to be in the situation, to be able what I whatever I had, to be able to go out there in that July and see her before she passed and such. So I don't know fully what it means, but that's my interpretation at this point, is as I know that I was meant to find that that school and it's given me, me gratitude, and that it was a gift from my mother. That was the day right after I went to her funeral. A few days after that, it was really sad. And I remember sitting where she had sat when she was dying, before she went to hospice, when I visited her in this chair, and it overlooked the sky. There's a lake that was next to the house, and just a nice view of the sky. And in that time period, in July, it's nice weather there in Northern Virginia, and, you know, clear blue sky. And when I sat, you know, I saw where she was writing stuff right before she died, and I was crying, and then I looked up at the sky, and I saw my mom with a smiling face, and she said, Oh, Jeremy, why do you look so sad? Just like, just like when I was in the hospital with her. Why do you look so sad? I'm right here from that, that point on, that's always been a part of what I see in the sky as I see my mom laughing and smiling. I had returned back to Portland after the funeral, and it was interesting because I joined the grief group at the Dougie center. I think I went to my first grief Group A week after my mom's funeral, something like that. And I was like, I know, I know that I may not feel like I need this right now, but I still need it right now. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna show up, because I know that this this helps so whatever comes up and whatever disagree process looks like for me, I just know that this is a safe place at the W center, and this helps people that helped When after that first couple weeks, I really fell into, I just couldn't really be social and talk to anybody, you know, I just kind of went to work and then, and then I went to the woods to hunt. And I've been pretty outgoing doing, doing Latin dance, salsa and bajada prior, and I just couldn't do that. I couldn't do I couldn't hear loud noises anymore, or music and or a lot of people talking things like that. I just couldn't for about six months after, after my mom's death and. The Dudley center was the only place where I really interacted with anybody you know outside of work, right? And sometimes I just sat there and listened and that that's that was great. That's what I needed. And sometimes I shared, if I felt that I wanted to share, and it provided me a space to, of course, relate with others who are going through the same thing. And, you know, not only that, but I think it, and what I'm realizing now is that somebody in the grief, grieving process that has hope,
Jeremy 15:41
just like my mom, you know, like some amount of positivity in their grieving process gives hope to others, that whatever, whatever stage I'm in, I know that there's hope for me to heal in the grieving process, whatever that looks like. But that's what the Dougie center, when, and the grief group and the Dougie center really gave me, was this hope when I was just kind of in shock, didn't know I couldn't be social, and then the only people I was able to relate to for that, that six months after it gave me a place to heal so
Jana DeCristofaro 16:24
well, one thing I don't think I knew when you first came to Dougie center. Well, I mean, I would have known that it was so soon after your mom had died, but I I just really am sitting in this place of hearing you how much trust was just a part of your experience, like, I'm just gonna trust that this is the best place for me to be right now. And I just, I kind of love that. You were like, Yeah, I just, I don't think I need it. I don't know if I need it, but I probably need it, so I'm just gonna go and see what happens. There has to be this level of like, okay, we're just gonna give it a try. And I wonder for you, because you mentioned when you flew home from the funeral, and it was easy to fall into like, Well, I live in Portland, and my mom just lives in Virginia, and it's just normal. When did it really sink in for you that she had died?
Jeremy 17:16
I think it was about a month, a month after really, right after she died. It started three weeks after, I think, just the process of being in the woods, but I envisioned her next to me on the hunt, like she was, she was, you know, coming along with me, and almost like pointing out the strategy, okay, you hear, you see that, or you hear that. And I think after that, then it really, really sunk in. I needed some time, time out there. And then I was with her. Her spirit was with me. But then when I came back to the city, I needed that time to whatever acknowledgement that she was gone to take place, I would say,
Jana DeCristofaro 18:21
you originally reached out to me about having this conversation because you really wanted to share the story of an experience you had about six months after your mom died, and you've mentioned a little of hunting and being in the woods and that being a really big part of your life. I wonder what you want to share about that experience that you had.
Jeremy 18:42
Yeah, and I'll start off first, it was a hunt that was three months after, and my motivation to hunt, it comes from a place of feeding myself and friends and family with what nature has given us, and that that kind of goes back to the heritage of the Filipino province. It's called Aklan, that that my mom is from. I had a connection closer to my heritage, I'd say on the this first hunt that that was three months after, and I was just so stressed about the whole thing, you know, I I just, I didn't really want to work. I couldn't really take the stress of work. Everything was as I mentioned, the loud noise, the overstimulation, the woods, is pretty quiet. A lot of it was, was becoming really, really in tune with the woods and my surroundings. I. It's archery, so you're really close range, and you're basically just sitting still for hours on end. And it allowed my mind to calm and just and just be present. Three months after this, my mom's passing this first hunt when I was fortunately successful it. This was a, it was actually a hunt. It had to kayak in. And when I was paddling out with the harvest, again, I saw my mom in the sky reappear, and I just hadn't seen that since that time. I was talking about sitting on the chair that she sat in when she was dying, and then me looking up, and then she's saying, Why do you look so sad and smiling, and I saw, I saw her again in the sky. When I was, I was paddling out like congratulating for a successful harvest. That really helped me as a part of a healing experience. The Hunt after this one was the one I had written a story about. This story has to do with a more of a struggle in this particular hunt, where so this is, this was for deer, and the circumstances are, are such that when deer are aware of their surroundings, or they think that they're in danger and they're hyper, hyper sensitive to any sound that goes off, they can do what's called Jumping the string of a bow so they can react. The sound of the bow going off comes before the arrow gets to its target, even at 15 yards right, and the animal hears, hears the sound and moves fast enough to get out of the way of the arrow. Unfortunately, the animal was hypersensitive and on alert. And one way you can account for the animal making movement is to aim in anticipating that movement happening. And the movement happened, but not in the way I had anticipated, such that the shot went into an area that is not conducive to what we call an ethical harvest. So you want to hit where it's it’s a fast as pain, less death as one can have, but it ended up hitting another part that was lethal. What that means is that animal is going to die, but a really slow, painful death. You know that the amount of guilt that that brought me, but it
Jeremy 23:34
was tremendous, because I know there's, there's no guarantees, of course, with archery hunting, and, you know, you go out and you do, do your best, and sometimes things like that just happen that are out of our control. I was, I was feeling really bad because this animal, you can't it's going to take 10 hours, 12 hours for it to die, and you can't go after it, because if you do, and you run into the animal, if you run into it, it's going to get a bunch of adrenaline and run off and way further you can't track it, and You're not going to be able to recover the animal and harvest the meat, which, which is why we hunt, right? So, knowing that I had caused what would be, you know, horrible deaths for the animal, you know, I was guilt ridden, and your best chances of recovering the animals get out of there. Wait, wait the time for it to expire, and then hope that nothing else had interacted with it, causing it to run off, and then hopefully it would be in the vicinity. And so it's going to be nighttime by that time. That 10 to 12 hours had hit, and so I got a high powered flashlight for searching, and then I went to yoga class, and I just during that, I heard my mom again, you know, like telling me that it was going to be okay, that was going to find, find the animal, and be able to harvest the meat. And when I went back to search for the animal, I was fortunate to find a blood trail that's not super common with this particular shot. I followed it to where, basically you could see the animal had laid down for a while. After that, there was no blood, and so at that point, the protocol is, is really you're going to have to do what's called gridding if there's no sign or obvious sign, because a lot of in this particular area, there were multiple trails, multiple deer trails, kind of going wherever. So this animal, after I left this spot, could have gone on any of these. And so you have to set aside a square area and just cover every inch of it. And, you know, look for any sign. And I was out there. It was probably about 1am I've been out there for a couple hours because there's, there's that obligation of, right? I I took that shot, so now I'm responsible for doing my part at whatever it takes to recover and harvest the meat. Because I because, right, I made the shot. I chose to make the shot, so I'm responsible. So I was out there and, you know, I just felt super defeated. I wasn't finding anything, and I had covered so much ground, you know, and you know, you're on your knees, crawling, looking for any sign during that time as well. I looked up. There was a pretty bright moon, and then I saw, I saw my mom, and she was still smiling. And one of the deer trails was lit up by the moonlight. It was just illuminated. It was a sign that there was more. I had not walked that trail yet, and that trail needed to be walked. I walked down that trail and I found the deer glowing. Was so fortunate, and so finding it at whatever was, you know, 2am versus 4am can be the difference between a substantial, portion of meat, edible meat, lost or not. Fortunately, everything was still in edible condition, and I was able to harvest that animal, and, you know, take it back to feed myself friends and family, and
Jeremy 28:24
the whole, the whole experience that I've had, and it's been on, it's been on every hunt or every challenging situation since is when I look up in the sky, whether it's night or day, and I see my mom smiling, and encouraging me for whatever, whatever is, and the positivity I feel. I feel like she's with me all the time, and I just, I just feel that connection so deeply on being out in nature and practicing, practicing my heritage, or she's my connection through her being out there with her, so that that's, that's the story that trying to tell.
Jana DeCristofaro 29:10
Yeah, so to be engaged in a practice that is so connected to your heritage and to your mom's family line, and to again and again, have this connection with her, of her coming through to be supportive or help you in some way, seems like that. Just again, that trust piece, like just trusting that she's there, connecting with you, especially when you're out doing these practices that are connected to her heritage.
Jeremy 29:39
Yeah, absolutely. And it's odd, but I'm more optimistic and positive ever now than I ever have been in my life. And I feel like, you know the dear skull that I found right that that's a gift she keeps giving. Me, it's a part of my grieving process to continue that state of mind. I feel I'm honoring her when I'm when I am, you know, in the optimistic and positive state of mind,
Jana DeCristofaro 30:22
another piece of shifts that you experienced in your own life after your mom died, was moving away from Portland and moving to New Mexico to be closer to your mom's family, and I wonder if you could briefly share how that has had an impact on you and your grief.
Jeremy 30:41
Yeah, I after my mom died in that fall and that first six months, felt like it was time to make a move for me. My dreaming experience, I was I need to change something, or, you know, I need to quit this job and just, you know, it's causing too much stress, or whatever, whatever the case may be, but I just felt like I needed to change something. And originally thought of moving to some other places. And then it was my dad who suggested, you know, why don't, why don't you move to Albuquerque? I thought about my grandma so her mom and I started to think, think about her grieving process, not that I know it or anything, but her losing a child, if I could, could be there and be able to visit her more often, along with my mom's brother and sister and extended family here how that could all help us being closer and just and Just living and having experiences post my mother's death, with her family, helps me. I can't say it helps everybody else, but I said it helps me. I hope it helps. I know, I think my grandma, you know, it's, it's tough, because I hope that me being able to visit her, right? You know, I'm the bloodline of my mom. I hope that it can help her too, to move, to move closer and be around all the family. And it's allowed me to connect my Filipino heritage and roots. Because my mom, she pretty much grew up in the States, so I never really learned too much, you know, on the cultural and my heritage, to be honest, she really didn't care so much for it. Like, when she moved back to the Philippines and she had to learn Tagalog, which is the official language of the Philippines. You know, there are stories like she hated it. so it's kind of ironic, but it's, I'm kind of learning everything that she hated. I feel like it's important, and it's been a healing process for me to learn and be a part of my family's heritage and traditions. And the first time I ever went to the Philippines
Jeremy 33:51
was after my mom died. I had made that trip about six months after for me, it was a healing process to go and see where she was born. That particular province is culture and traditions. And they have, they even have their own language. And that was, that was a really, really healing process for me, and then to be able to after, after that, move to New Mexico, and at least have some sort of knowledge of the tradition and customs and be able to practice those traditions and customs with my extended family here who are or had moved to the United States after living in the Philippines, I'd say, so that was a big part of it, and connecting, you know, and I'm still, still learning more and more.
Jana DeCristofaro 34:58
Yeah, it seems like so much of. Your experience after your mom has died has been finding those through lines from Yeah, her and even, you know, generations prior to her, and just maintaining and cultivating, really and caring for those through lines. So I Yeah, Jeremy, thank you for being willing to come and share about those through lines with me and with our listeners today, I feel like, even though we were in group together for quite a while, I feel like I learned so much more about you and your mom and your family today. So I'm grateful for you and the energy it takes to try to put some of these more profound experiences into words that makes sense to other people. So thank you for that,
Jeremy 35:39
but yeah, thank you so much for inviting me on and yet responding and all the support you and all the others at the WF Center have done for me and countless others.
Jana DeCristofaro 35:53
Well, thank you again. Jeremy, grateful for your time and listeners. You know I say this to you each and every single time, but thank you for tuning in, for making the show mean something, for sharing episodes with people who might be supported by what we're talking about here. If you want to reach out to me directly, you can email me at griefoutloud@dougy.org. www.dougy.org is our main website, and there you'll find all of the free, downloadable resources that we have information about our local programming, and, of course, each and every episode of grief out loud. I also wanted to draw your attention, if you are a professional out there, or really, you know, just an interested community member, we have a series of online classes available now on supporting kids, teens, young adults supporting students after a death. They're available in English and in Spanish, and you can take them at your own pace. So if you're interested in those, head to D, O, U, G, y, dot, O, R, G, and you can learn more about that. Always excited to share that the podcast is sponsored in part by The Chester Stephan Endowment Fund. Thanks again for listening. Hope you'll join us again next time.